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Ron Dolan is President at Sailun Tire North America. He has a demonstrated history working in the automotive industry with developed skills in negotiation, budgeting, business planning, and sales. TBC Brands exclusively distribute Sailun Tires in the US and sells over 30 million tires annually in more than 50 countries worldwide. Ron came to Sailun from Dynamic Tire Corp, where he worked for nearly twenty years.
In this episode…
What makes a salesperson great at what they do? According to Ron Dolan from Sailun Tire North America, it’s not a tried-and-true sales process; it’s your ability to connect with people. Ron says if you genuinely like people, tell them the truth, and treat them how you want to be treated, you will be effective.
On this episode of Gain Traction, Ron joins Mike Edge to discuss the most effective ways to sell tires and retain customers. Ron speaks about his selling style and how he doesn’t work an angle or come up with a sales pitch — he’s even told potential customers to call someone else because he didn’t believe in certain products. Ron says that playing the long game is key, explaining that he’s had relationships with customers for over 20 years. Don’t miss it!
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
- Ron Dolan shares the way tires have played an essential role in his life
- Learning about the off-road tire segment
- The story behind Ron’s ascension to President at Sailun Tire North America
- Ron’s keys to sales success
- What does Sailun do differently from its value tier competitors?
- How Ron is reacting to raising his daughters (with his wife) and seeing them grow into adults
Resources mentioned in this episode:
- Ron Dolan on LinkedIn
- Sailun Tire
- Sailun Tire in the US
- Dynamic Tire
- CBC
- Robert Sherkin on LinkedIn
- Peter Koszo on LinkedIn
- Tom McKee on LinkedIn
- Traction Summit 2023
- Smithers
- Mike Edge on LinkedIn
- Tread Partners
Transcript
Announcer:
Welcome to the Gain Traction Podcast, where we feature top automotive entrepreneurs and experts, and share their inspiring stories. Now, let’s get started with the show.
Mike Edge:
Welcome to the Gain Traction Podcast. I am Mike Edge, your host today. Ron Dolan, President and CEO of Sailun Tire North America is my guest, and I am excited to learn more about his career and the brand. So before we get started, as you know, I like to give a little shout-out. Today I want to promote Traction Summit hosted by Smithers. This year’s summit is May 23-25 in San Antonio, Texas, where attendees will have the opportunity to understand and discuss the future of the tire industry while also networking with fellow colleagues and professionals. This year’s theme is sustainability in tires. Smithers provides custom tire analysis and standard testing to meet your requirements. Find out more at tractionsummit.com.
This episode is brought to you by Tread Partners. If you sell tires and or offer auto repair services for multi-locations, contact Tread Partners to do a digital marketing audit for your company today. Stop the leaky spending, and get more cars in your bays while spending your money more efficiently. Most multi-location operations waste thousands, and I mean thousands, of dollars every month because they don’t work with a digital marketing agency that specializes in tires. It’s very critical, and it will help your budget. To learn more, visit treadpartners.com.
Ron, welcome to the Gain Traction Podcast. Glad to have you.
Ron:
Thanks for having me, Mike. Appreciate it.
Mike Edge:
Well, let’s just start with your bio a little bit. Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up and the family you had, where you came from.
Ron:
Came from. I grew up and still in the same area, live about an hour north of Toronto in Canada. That’s where Sailun’s head office is for North America. A little correction, I am the President of Sailun, but we do have a CEO for the North America region. No problem. His name is Peter Koszo, so if he listens to this, I don’t want to steal his thunder.
Mike Edge:
Peter, we weren’t trying to dis you buddy.
Ron:
I grew up there my whole life in that part of Ontario. My father was in the tire business as well, and worked for different companies in the Toronto area, mostly in the truck tire business. At the end of his career, last probably 15 years or so, he was in the wholesale side of the business.
Mike Edge:
So the rubber was in your blood early then?
Ron:
Yes it was. And my brother is also in the tire business. He’s actually an installer. Started at 15 as an installer and still as an installer today at 56 years old. So yeah, we have a lot of experience with tires in our family, that’s for sure.
Mike Edge:
Well, so what’d you do growing up? High school, college, et cetera?
Ron:
Yeah. High school, and about halfway through high school I think I was telling you before briefly that I have dyslexia. So school has never, was never my forte say the least. So I started a used tire business about 16 years old with Apple, my dad to teach me how to grade the tires to see that was what was re-sellable. Did that for a few years and did well with that and then took a little break from tires for a bit and had some odd jobs but played in a band in Canada. Did that for a little while and then realized that-
Mike Edge:
Time out. You got to tell us what kind of music.
Ron:
It was our own music. It was kind of in the rock genre of the time. So late nineties kind of esque music. And we had fun with that. I got actually, a lot of skills were learned, because I managed our band as well as played in it. So I think a lot of my business acumen actually was formed in that experience. So it was a lot of fun. But my dad got very sick of loaning me money for car payments and different things. So he said-
Mike Edge:
You mean you weren’t selling out stadiums?
Ron:
We were not selling out stadium, a starving artist was very fitting for myself and the band at that point. We had some local success, but as you can imagine in a small market like Canada to survive here you have to be doing quite well. But it was a lot of fun. So I got back into the tire business at that point, delivering from my father tires to his different customers. At some point I wanted to get into sales.
It was a very small company my dad worked for. He was the only salesperson, so he wasn’t retiring at that point. So we’ve a company in Canada called Dynamic Tire, had just started a few years earlier. My father knew the head of sales there and asked if they had anything from his connections and I thank him still for this day to introduce me to the company I’m still with today. Obviously very different, which I’ll get into. But it all started with dynamic and then I got a job as a territory salesperson for the Northern Ontario region, which, if anybody knows Canada, my territory was the size of the state of Florida. So from tip to the northern end of Florida would be the same geographical distance. So there was a time zone change in my territory.
Mike Edge:
Nice. Did you ever mess up on meetings there?
Ron:
What’s that? Sorry?
Mike Edge:
Did you ever mess up with on your scheduling your meetings with your time zones sometimes?
Ron:
Yeah, no, it was an hour’s difference, but it was a lot of driving. And back then there was no satellite radio. So in Canada we have a government sponsored radio station called CBC and I learned a lot about gardening and different things like that in my long drive. So I did that, the first territory for a few years.
Mike Edge:
Let me ask you, so when you would listen to these radio projects, you become probably became somewhat of a little trivia buff if you know were in sales meetings, “Well I know a little bit about gardening.”
Ron:
Exactly.
Mike Edge:
Think of, did you ever watch Cheers?
Ron:
Yes, absolutely.
Mike Edge:
Remember Cliff Clavin?
Ron:
Yes. Always had an answer. Always had a trivia.
Mike Edge:
I can picture you picking up all these facts that really don’t pay pertain to anything, but you could use them-
Ron:
Great for conversations. Absolutely. No, and it was a really nice spot to start sales in. That area of Canada, similar to the south of the US. Really, really kind people. A lot of guys, because I was green, especially to the OTR segment, I had had a little bit of experience with truck through my father, but did not know very much about off the road segment. And a lot of the guys taught me, the guys that were buying taught me about that segment, which I’m thankful to this day because if I would’ve started off in the Toronto area, it’s just a faster paced environment and it probably wouldn’t have been ideal to learn in. So it was a really good spot to start.
And then they moved me to Southern Ontario and then I became an, fast forwarding because it’s been many years, but I fast forwarded to the truck tire segment. I took that over for the company. So helping develop the brands, working with the different vendors out of Asia. Dynamic Tire has always been in the value tier segment. We never sold any of the leading brands. So we became, and I became at that process, kind of an expert in the value tier.
Mike Edge:
Just for our listeners, Dynamic Tire is a big distributor, correct?
Ron:
Yes. Yeah. Dynamic Tire is the largest wholesaler of value tier products in Canada and is still, I don’t work for them today, but they’re still a part of the Sailun group. And then through my roles at Dynamic, eventually it became President. Was President at Dynamic Tire for five years and then Sailun purchased Dynamic Tire in I think 09, 2010. And then we split off where Sailun, we had a manufacturing division and kept the wholesale division in Canada. And then just over two years ago I came over to Sailun, initially as the Sales and Marketing Lead and now President last couple years.
Mike Edge:
That’s a great story. Congratulations on all that. Sounds like you must have been a great salesman then.
Ron:
Yeah, I really like people. I don’t think I’m a typical salesperson where I have a sales process. I find that I connect people very easily, tell them the truth and I think it’s been really the way to do it. We talk about treating people how you want to be treated. I’ve always been annoyed by salespeople over the years that always have an angle and you’re like, oh, here comes the pitch. It’s like, of course when I walk into Mike’s Tire Shop, I want to sell them tires, but I try to do it in a way that’s very transparent and no BS.
Mike Edge:
No, and it says a lot. So you and I were talking about some books or whatever, one of the sales books I read actually this guy, his big point he drove home, he goes, “You’ve got to be brutally honest. If you want to be a great salesman, be brutally honest.” And he goes, “And then people deal with you forever.”
Ron:
Yeah, we had examples over the years where in the early days of selling value tier truck tires, I had good customers slash friends call me up and say, “Well what’s the best steer tire you have? I have this particular customer, whatever.” I say, “You’re calling the wrong company. We don’t have a good steer tire.” Because I wasn’t going to put my name or our company’s name behind something I didn’t believe in. Now I’d say, “Hey, if you need that for a trailer, fantastic or an all position, I’m totally behind it. And I believe that the value’s there.” But at that point in the evolution of those products, no, they didn’t build a good, and especially a long haul steer tire. But then when they would call me and say, “What kind of drive tire?” and then I would believe in that product for that application. They knew I was the real goods.
Mike Edge:
No, I did that one time. I worked for a service company and we did a terrible job for a customer, a guy I knew. Then he got the invoice and I said, “Don’t pay it.” He goes, “Seriously? They’re going to keep hounding me. They’ve already hounded me like three phone calls and three invoices.” I said, “They’ll come back and get it right if you don’t pay it.” He goes, “Maybe I should pay it and they’ll come back.” And I said, “No, they won’t come back.” I said, “Just do what I’m telling you, don’t pay it.” And so I had my boss breathing down my neck, but I didn’t care. I just said, “Look, we owed this guy, we told him what we do, I put my neck on the line, we’re going to fix it.” And eventually we did. And this guy and I are still friends today because I wasn’t going to BS him. And I think people appreciate that.
Ron:
I totally agree. And when you’re in B2B sales, okay, so what I’ve always been in, long-term relationships. I mean I’ve had relationships with people for 20 years. So it’s a long game where other types of sales, it’s about closing very quickly. And I’m not going to disparage car sales, it’s the first thing that pops to my mind. I’m most likely not going to see that gentleman or lady again, so they need to get it done quickly. I was fortunate enough, and I think everybody else that’s in B2B or long-term relationship sales, you don’t have to be a salesman or that quick close, which is really nice because it’s way more sustainable.
Mike Edge:
Oh, man. And you sleep better. I mean, you’re really trying to take care of the person and their needs, and then sometimes if they don’t need it today, they might need it three, six months. Don’t wear them out. Just take your time. It’s going to be around anyway.
Ron:
Yeah, exactly.
Mike Edge:
Anyway, well give me an idea of some big turning points in your career where you found success. You and I were talking before the recording here that sometimes it’s just right place, right time. Did you have any of those moments?
Ron:
Absolutely, I did. We talk a lot about the value tier. Well, when I started with Dynamic Tire, there was no value to truck tires coming out of Asia. I mean, it was a brand new thing, maybe a couple of years old. There was maybe two or three companies in Canada, or even North America wide, maybe five or six that were bringing product in from Asia in that tier. And at the start it was really difficult to sell those products. You want to talk about people, I would bring people through the warehouse and we’d walk by a pile of tires that wasn’t mounted and I had multiple people jolt away as if the tires were going to explode and these people didn’t know each other. This was something in the air of how people viewed the product.
And so what I did at the start is I went right to the end user on the behalf of the dealer and would talk the end user into trying 16 A tires. They would agree to it. I would cut the deal from a financial perspective on the behalf of the dealer, then come with an order in hand. And that was the only real way that I could sell. A lot of the dealers just had no time to try this new segment out because again, of personal biases or whatever it was at the time. And the product, by the way, right out of the gate was good. It was just the perception was very [inaudible 00:14:30]. So I think that that was a real critical moment for me doing that particular move because it really expedited my sales in my particular, every region that I worked in and got me success beyond other sales people that worked at Dynamic at the time. So then once I got the rep truck tire guy, then they gave me the job to take over the truck tire segment. So then I got into the marketing side.
Mike Edge:
You had to build the trust. That’s what you worked on then.
Ron:
Absolutely. And I think what I’d say without sounding cocky, I think pretty fearless too. Very intimidating to walk into end user transport companies that have the same attitude, by the way, as the tire dealers on these tires out of China at the time. And having the thick enough skin to take the jabs and the jokes, it was a different time. Now there’s other challenges, it’s more saturated. There’s tons of brands and a salesman today could tell you a different story of what the challenges are, but back then it wasn’t saturated, it just wasn’t wanted.
Mike Edge:
It’s almost like getting in a ring. You just had to be willing to take a few punches first and then get your opportunity.
Ron:
Yes, and be okay with multiple days of not selling. And to take that emotionally to keep going, and not to be discouraged.
Mike Edge:
Like you said though, you had a good product, that helps.
Ron:
Absolutely. So the founder of Dynamic Tires, a gentleman, gentleman named Bob Sherkin, and Peter Koszo actually, our current CEO was also a founder of Dynamic Tire. So they had the foresight and they also instilled a lot of confidence because they were at these factories auditing them. They made us feel very comfortable that, these are top-notch factories, they showed us pictures. So they did testing before we sold it in the US, got the tires cut open. So it’s pretty cool. I went out with a lot of confidence from what those two gentlemen created.
Mike Edge:
Well, and it says a lot, I mean your integrity, but you obviously trusted the guys that own the company and the work they put into it. And if they’re telling you, “Hey, we’ve got a good tire here, let’s push it hard,” then you know it, and then once you get it out there, you just need that. That’s so funny we’re talking about this, I mentioned that book to you, Tipping Point.
Ron:
Right.
Mike Edge:
You hit a tipping point of once you get over a certain level or word of mouth that gets out there, then it starts to spread a little bit like wildfire. Hey, this is a good tire and you get a good price on it.
Ron:
Yeah, it was interesting at the start, I think a lot of our leading brand competitors said, “Well of course people are going to try it. It’s so much cheaper than what we’re selling,” the tier two or tier one truck tire brands, we’ll stick to truck for a second. But as you know, as we all know, price is one time. The person may try it, but if the product does not deliver the value equation isn’t there, they’re not going to go back to it. I mean we saw hockey stick growth at Dynamic and then eventually into Sailun because the value was there, the product delivered beyond the price. So probably about five or six years in it got really good where people stopped mentioning the country of origin. It still came up obviously, especially at the end user level. But from the B2B point of view, people quickly realized, hey, these are good products.
And then just to fast-forward, because we only have so much time onto the sale Sailun Tire piece, that is a really interesting spot to be at now because Salem, we’re the 12 largest tire company in the world now. And now we’re at a new stage where we don’t talk about country of origin, because honestly we produce all of our tires for North America in Vietnam and Cambodia. And it’s kind of a passe thing now to talk about country of origin because I think the market has pretty much accepted that high quality products, it’s about the manufacturer they’re dealing with, not where they produce them.
Mike Edge:
Well, it’s so interesting, maybe you’ll get a little philosophical background on me, but I lean always towards the laissez-faire of economics, just let the market figure it out. And it will. Ultimately, that’s the fairest thing to do. If it’s a good product at a good price, you’ll survive. And if you provide a good service with it, you win. And long term too, like you said, price is only good for one time and then after that they’re going to know.
Ron:
Yeah. So now we’re at the point where we have our multi-brand strategy in US, Canada, Mexico. Sailun is the name of the company, which TBC is our exclusive distributor of that brand, but we have other brands as well. And what we do a little differently than some of our value tier competitors that we have individual programs. A lot of our competitors have plated programs, so they’re using the same thread design over and over again with just a different label on the side. But we’re very proud of the investment we’ve made in that area to have unique programs where you could be buying one of our brands on one side of the street, and then somebody else has a totally different program across the street so you’re not pigeonholed to each other.
Mike Edge:
That’s nice.
Ron:
Yeah.
Mike Edge:
You’re not being a me too out there then.
Ron:
No, absolutely not.
Mike Edge:
That’s nice. So tell me a little bit, we kind of fast-forward the personal side. So you have wife, kids?
Ron:
I’m married for almost 20 years, and I have three daughters, 16, 14, and 12. So I’m right in the mix of it now.
Mike Edge:
Hey, wake up. Listen, I’m just a few years older than you and I had one get married last year and I have another one… I have two daughters and three sons. And one got married last year, and the other one decided she’s getting married this year. So wait till that one comes around. Save your money because you’ve got three.
Ron:
Yes. It’s so funny, every stage has its thing. So we’re in the high school, the youngest is not in high school yet, but we have that stage and all the pressures and the different dramas that come with that stage. And then I know that very quickly it’s going to be at the next stage. So we try to live in the moment with them, not wishing them to be older, not wishing them to be younger, it’s just living in the now with them. They’re great girls, they’re all doing well, and my wife stays at home with them and it’s been a blessing that we’ve been able to do that. She homeschooled our two youngest ones, started in COVID and just kept them home because she saw where they were at in school and thought that she could probably help them be more prepared for high school.
So that was a personal decision we made. It’s worked fantastic. And they, unfortunately, I mentioned I was dyslexic, I think at the start of the conversation. I don’t know if it was on the actual podcast or the pre-conversation and they inherited that dyslexia, but to their credit, their work ethic is about three times what mine was at the same age. So they’re doing quite well in school with my wife’s support. So yeah, it’s been really amazing to see them grow up and turning into pretty amazing people.
Mike Edge:
Oh, that’s awesome. Well it sounds like you got a beautiful family. And I will say just because I’m ahead ahead of me on the kid thing, but yeah, once the nest busts opened, and what I mean by that is their wings, they’re ready to fly and they take off through school or whatever. It was emotional for me, I’m going to say it, I was almost a big baby about it. It was like, they’re not going to be here anymore.
Ron:
Yeah. We talk about that. It’s what you want, it’s what you want [inaudible 00:23:03] people, and that’s the goal. But yeah, I know I’m going to be a big suck about it too when the time comes. Girls and their father have a special relationship as you know, but that’s what we want. And my wife is raising, and I always say my wife is raising because I travel a lot, so I give her 85% of the credit of how they’ve turned out. She’s raising really strong independent women, and I think they’re going to be outside of, personally, I think they’re going to be fantastic employees for somebody one day. And I hope one of them works with our organization, if I’m be honest.
Mike Edge:
That’s awesome. Well, you and I have covered a lot of topics even before we got started, and a book that comes to mind is called Strong Father, Strong Daughters. And a friend of mine, he goes, “I know what you’re going to think before you read this book.” Look, I didn’t want to get into a lot of psychological stuff or whatever. I’m good with people I feel like, and I’m just going to raise my daughters the best way I knew how. And he goes, “Trust me, you’ll like this book.” And because it was him and we’re good friends, he’s a doctor too. And I just said, “You know what? I’m going to read it.” And I loved it. There’s a lot of powerful things that reaffirm that relationship that you were talking about, fathers and daughters, and you’re seeing the fruits of it. And I know obviously your wife’s involved, but there is a certain bond that just exists. I don’t know how to describe it.
Ron:
Yeah, it’s amazing actually. People say to me, they’re like, “Oh, do you wish you would’ve had a son?” And I’m like, “I only know daughters.” So I couldn’t imagine being a father to a boy now because it’s just so entrenched. You were asking me before the podcast about sports and being a Canadian and the hockey question. My father played semi-pro sports, my brother was athletic, but yeah, I got the art. I was in a band, played guitar. I did dramatic arts when I was young. So not just stereotype or put different roles, but I definitely think that I can relate to typical things that girls do more than the football and hockey or basketball. Yes.
Mike Edge:
Well, my two came along and I had people going… My two girls are the oldest. And so they were like, “Don’t you want a son?” I said, “At this point I said, I’ll take more of them.” I mean, I fell in love with my two little girls because they doted on me, and it was just fun. And then we ended up having boys. But I mean, it was like, I never thought I would say that, but after having the first two, I was like, “Man, I’ll take a couple more of these. This is great.”
Ron:
Yeah. Younger people that I work with talk about family and stuff like that. It’s a lot of hard work, can’t minimize what it’s like to raise another human being. But I tell you, if you feel like you have a little bit of selfishness in you, I tell you it takes it away pretty quickly being a parent.
Mike Edge:
Oh, yeah.
Ron:
And it gives you a different perspective that I think you can only have by having them. Hey, kids aren’t for everybody and if you don’t want to have kids, don’t have them. But if it’s something that you want to do, it’s a fantastic experience overall.
Mike Edge:
It is. And I didn’t realize, man, you and I could probably talk all day. Is there anything else you’d like to tell the audience about the brand Sailun?
Ron:
Yeah, just to know that we have an R&D center now in Chattanooga. All the products that we sell in North America are designed here. We back our products a hundred percent. So if this is a potential customer at a tire dealer level listening to that, I want them to leave this podcast knowing that we fully support what we sell. We have industry lows as far as our warranty rate goes, it’s a rounding error.
And then if you’re an end user, what I would say is if you ever get a chance to try one of our products, you won’t be disappointed. And I know this as a consumer, sometimes we think, oh, you get what you pay for. With our particular products, I do believe it’s a little bit of a hidden secret. You’d be shocked on the mileage, the traction, the comfort of the tires when you drive on them for what you paid. So yeah, that’s what I believe. We’re good people. Everybody that works at Sailun is longtime tire people. I think about 400 years of tire experience, and there’s only about 30 of us in the sales and marketing department. So we’re passionate about tires, and we’re passionate about caring about people. So know that if we put a tire on your family’s vehicle, we put a lot of thought and engineering into it.
Mike Edge:
That’s fantastic. So I told you before the recording here with the podcast that we do a little segment called Make Us Laugh. You got something funny you can tell us about yourself or self-deprecating.
Ron:
Yeah, well, lots of self-deprecating things for sure over the years. But one, we talk about timing, luck some, and sometimes through bad things, good things happen. So this story’s kind of in that vein. So when I was at McKee Tire was the name of the company that my dad ran their sales, and I was the delivery guy. And I got pulled into Tom McKee’s office one day and said, “Ron, you can’t drive the company vehicle anymore.” I said, “Why is that, Tom?” He says, “You have 11 tickets on your record and we’ll allow up two.”
Mike Edge:
Two was the max?
Ron:
Two was the max, “And you have 11.” And I said, “But I have all my demerit points,” which depending on what region you’re from, that may resonate with you. But I had a bunch of minor infractions, so I never thought, this is basically 10 over the speed limit and under is what a minor infraction is in Ontario. So I thought, that’s okay, I can get as many as I want. Well you can’t. So then I was sent back into changing tires in the shop and I was like, my next move was to get into sales. This is a big step back.
And so anyways, that’s how I got the job at Dynamic, because they actually didn’t provide a vehicle. You had to drive your own vehicle. And so with my $600 a month insurance bill, I started with Dynamic Tire. And because of that situation, it led me on the path where I am today. So I’m not the poster boy for making good decisions at that age, but just know, for those people listening, sometimes the hardest moments in life or the most you think you’ve been set back, turn into to some of the most amazing,
Mike Edge:
And that’s a great story. It’s almost makes me, it’s like that cliche that’s truly rolling with the punches. Really, you were down and out, you’re basically losing your job because your driving record.
Ron:
Yes.
Mike Edge:
And then you’re thinking, well, who the heck’s going to hire me now?
Ron:
And now I had some luck with and connections with my dad knowing someone to go talk to on my behalf. So again, life is a recipe and there’s a ton of ingredients that get to you where you are. I could have ended up with just little moments being different, could have ended up on a completely different path. So yeah, I guess the message is just, you never know when the good things around the corner’s going to happen.
Mike Edge:
It’s awesome. Well, tell us a little bit, what’s your favorite hobby?
Ron:
Still love playing guitar and singing, just like it’s a good decompressor from work. It’s probably the few moments where I’m not thinking about tires or Sailun the company is. So that three minutes of playing a particular song is very relaxing. So I like to do that. And spending time with the family and yeah, pretty simple life. I travel a ton for work, so when I’m home, I’m pretty much in decompression mode. I get all my stimulus I need from work.
Mike Edge:
Well Ron, I can’t thank you enough for being part of the podcast. It’s been a pleasure.
Ron:
Yes, pleasure as well, Mike. And you made it very easy to talk to. So thanks a lot.
Mike Edge:
So to all our listeners out there, thank you for being part of the podcast. If you’d like to recommend a guest to us, just email me directly, [email protected]. That’s [email protected]. We’ll take it under consideration. And until next time, be safe and have a great day.
Announcer:
Thanks for listening to the Gain Traction Podcast. We’ll see you again next time. And be sure to quick subscribe to get future episodes.
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